- When I first spoke to a close Christian friend
of mine about the publishing of Tony Bushby's The Bible Fraud,
her reaction was one that many Christians have expressed, and
one that made me aghast. She didn't want the book available because
it would "persuade them away from the Bible and the word
of God." Further discussions with her and many other Christians
around the world about The Bible Fraud all result in the Bible
being quoted as the ultimate reference for the apparent "words
of God," and therefore the basis for their arguments. The
problem lies in that they believe the Bible is infallible.
-
- If we examine the oldest known Bible to date,
the "Sinai Bible" housed in the British Museum (I believe
that, during his many years of research, Tony had a private viewing
of this priceless book), we find a staggering 14,800 differences
from today's Bible and yet it still remains the word of God?
-
- As Tony points out, the history of our 'genuine'
Bibles is a convoluted one. Firstly we cannot be sure that we
have the full version as it was originally intended. In 1415 the
Church of Rome took an extraordinary step to destroy all knowledge
of two second century Jewish books that it said contained the
true name of Jesus Christ. The Antipope Benedict XIII firstly
singled out for condemnation a secret Latin treatise called "Mar
Yesu" and then issued instructions to destroy all copies
of the book of Elxai. The Rabbinic fraternity once held the destroyed
manuscripts with great reverence for they were comprehensive original
records reporting the life of Rabbi Jesus.
-
- Later, Pope Alexander VI ordered all copies of
the Talmud destroyed, with the Spanish Grand Inquisitor Tomas
de Torquemada (1420-98) responsible for the elimination of 6,000
volumes at Salamanca alone.
-
- Solomon Romano (1554) also burnt many thousands
of Hebrew scrolls and, in 1559, every Hebrew book in the city
of Prague was confiscated. The mass destruction of Jewish books
included hundreds of copies of the Old Testament and caused the
irretrievable loss of many original handwritten documents.
-
- The oldest text of the Old Testament that survived,
before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls" was said to
be the Bodleian Codex (Oxford), which was dated to circa 1100
AD. In an attempt by the church to remove damaging Rabbinic information
about Jesus Christ from the face of the earth, the Inquisition
burnt 12,000 volumes of the Talmud.
-
- In 1607, forty-seven men (some records say fifty
four) took two years and nine months to re-write the Bible and
make it ready for press. It was, by the order of King James, issued
with a set of personal 'rules' the translators were to follow.
Upon its completion in 1609, it was handed over to the King James
for his final approval. However, "It was self evident that
James was not competent to check their work and edit it, so he
passed the manuscripts onto the greatest genius of all time...
Sir Francis Bacon"
-
- The first English language manuscripts of the
Bible remained in Bacon's possession for nearly a year. During
that time ... "he hammered the various styles of the translators
into the unity, rhythm, and music of Shakespearean prose, wrote
the prefaces and created the whole scheme of the Authorized Version.
At the completion of the editing, King James ordered a 'dedication
to the King' to be drawn up and included in the opening pages.
He also wanted the phrase 'Appointed to be read in the churches'
to appear on the title page.
-
- The King James Bible is considered by many today
to be the 'original' Bible and therefore 'genuine' and all later
revisions simply counterfeits forged by 'higher critics'. Others
think the King James Bible is 'authentic' and 'authorized' and
presents the original words of the authors as translated into
English from the 'original' Greek texts. However, as Tony points
out, the 'original' Greek text was not written until around the
mid fourth century and was a revised edition of writings compiled
decades earlier in Aramaic and Hebrew. Those earlier documents
no longer exist and the Bibles we have today are five linguistic
removes from the first bibles written. What was written in the
'original originals' is quite unknown. It is important to remember
that the words 'authorized' and 'original', as applied to the
Bible do not mean 'genuine', 'authentic' or 'true'.
-
- By the early third century, it became well noted
that a problem was occurring . politics! In 251AD, the number
of Presbyter's (roving orator or priest) writings had increased
dramatically and bitter arguments raged between opposing factions
about their conflicting stories. According to Presbyter Albius
Theodoret (circa 255), there were "more than two hundred"
variant gospels in use in his time. In 313, groups of Presbyters
and Biscops (Bishops) violently clashed over the variations in
their writings and "altar was set against altar" in
competing for an audience and territory.
-
- When Emperor Constantine conquered the East in
324, he sent his Spanish religious advisor, Osius of Cordoba,
to Alexandria with letters to several Biscops exhorting them to
make peace among their own. But the mission failed and Constantine,
probably at the suggestions of Osius, then issued a decree commanding
all Presbyters and their subordinates "be mounted on asses,
mules and horses belonging to the public and travel to the city
of Nicaea" in the Roman province of Bithymia, the country
of Asia. The Presbyters were instructed by the Emperor to bring
with them the manuscripts from which they orated to the rabble
(that's us!) "wrapped and bound in leather".
-
- Constantine saw in this developing system of belief
the opportunity to make a combined state religion and protect
it by law. The first general church council was thus convened
and the year was 325.
-
- On 21 June, the day of the Summer Solstice, (and
under those cult conditions) a total of 2048 "presbyters,
deacons, sub-deacons, acolytes and exorcists" gathered at
Nicaea to decide what Christianity really was, what it would be,
what writings were to be used and who was to be it's God.
-
- Ancient church evidence established that a new
'god' was to be approved by the Roman Emperor and an earlier attempt
(circa 210) to deify either Judas Khrestus or his twin brother
Rabbi Jesus (or somebody else) had been 'declined'. Therefore,
as late as 325, the Christian religion did not have an official
god.
-
- After a long and bitter debate, a vote was finally
taken and it was with a majority show of hands that Judas Khrestus
and Rabbi Jesus both became God (161votes for and 157 votes against).
The Emperor effectively joined elements of the two individual
life stories of the twin brothers into a singular creation. The
doctrine of the Celtic / British church of the west was democratically
attached to the Presbyters stories of the east.
-
- A deification ceremony was then performed 'Apotheosis'.
Thus the deified ones were then called 'saviours' and looked upon
as gods. Temples, altars, and images with attributes of divinity
were then erected and public holidays proclaimed on their birthdays.
-
- Following the original example set by the deification
of Caesar, their funerals were dramatized as the scene of their
resurrection and immortality. All these godly attributes passed
as a legal right to Emperor Constantine's new deity, Jesus Christ.
-
- The Emperor then instructed Bishop Eusebius to
compile a uniform collection of new writings "bound together
as one" using the stories from the large collection of Presbyters
as his reference source. Eusebius was to arrange for the production
of "fifty sumptuous copies ... to be written on parchment
in a legible manner, and in a convenient portable form, by professional
scribes thoroughly accomplished in the art". This was the
first mention of finished copies of a Christian 'New Testament'
in the history of mankind.
-
- As one can imagine, to condense the real life
of the Jesus Christ, the Church and His teachings with supporting
evidence into a short article is very difficult. It is therefore
wise for those who wish to have supportable evidence to read and
study Tony Bushby's epic work, The Bible Fraud, along with it's
detailed blood lines (family trees) and over 869 references. (see
www.thebiblefraud.com)
-
- However, attempting to summarize what Tony has
written..... in 325 AD, the first Christian council was called
at Nicaea to bring the stories of twin brothers, Jesus 'the Rabbi'
and Judas Khrestus into one deity that we now know as Jesus Christ.
Tony says they were not born of virgin birth but to Nabatean Arab
Mariamne Herod (now known as the Virgin Mary) and fathered by
Tiberius ben Panthera, a Roman Centurion. The brothers were raised
in the Essene community and became Khrists of their faith. Rabbi
Jesus later was initiated in Egypt at the highest of levels similar
to the 33rd degree of Freemasonry of which many Prime ministers
and Presidents around the world today are members. He then later
married three wives, one of whom we know as a Mary Magdalene,
a Druidic Princess, stole the Torah from the temple and moved
to Lud, now London.
-
- Tony believes the reason Jesus stole the Torah
was that he said it contained "a very special secret",
which he was going to reveal that secret to the world. He was
stoned to death and the Torah taken from him before he could.
-
- The elder brother, Judas Khrestus, with his "Khrestian"
followers conspired to take the throne of Rome, his royal birthright,
and was captured, tried, and was sentenced to be crucified. (The
"Khrestians" and the Essenic army, the Nazarenes, would
today be likened to terrorists.) At the trial, Judas exercised
his royal birthright to have a replacement in Simon of Cyrene
(Luke 23:41) and then was sold as a slave to live out his days
as a carpenter in India.
-
- Rabbi Jesus spent a considerable amount of time
at the Palace of the British in Rome and sometime around 48 AD,
he left for Egypt to pursue his greatest esoteric goal. The spiritual
knowledge from his secret education in the Essene and Druid movements
was soon to be elevated to the highest level possible - initiation
into the innermost rite of the Egyptian temples.
-
- It was probable that Rabbi Jesus' earlier initiation
into both the Essene and Druid schools played a major part in
his acceptance into the Egyptian school. The Druids could claim
a very early origin and the essence of their wisdom was also that
of the Essenes. In the case of the Essenes, it is possible to
show that their movement was specifically established to preserve
secret information, for they knew and used the sacred writing
of the Initiates. The full meaning of the point being made by
Bushby is that in the case of all Secret Schools, the inner and
ultimate Mystery was revealed only to a High Initiate.
-
- Those who were initiated into the Ancient mysteries
took a solemn oath never to reveal what had passed within the
sacred walls. Every year only a comparatively few Egyptian initiations
were conducted, and the number of persons who knew their secrets
was never at any time large. The initiations always took place
with the onset of darkness and the candidate was entranced for
periods of varying length, depending upon the level of the degree
for which he had entered.
-
- The first initiatory step involved a forty-day
procedure that basically involved purification, not only in physical
form, but dissolving all tendencies to evil thoughts, purifying
the mind as well. It appears that he would have fasted, alternatively
on vegetables, juices and very special herbal concoctions.
-
- The New Testament recorded that this happened
to Rabbi Jesus who "was led into the desert.... and he fasted
forty days and forty nights" (Matt. 4:1-2).
-
- This trial period involved more than just fasting.
During the forty days and nights' ordeal, Tony says the candidate
was required to study astronomical charts to supplement his skills
in astronomy and memorize charts of the heavens. They were also
given a particular ritual from which to memorize certain passwords,
secret signs and handclasps, skills that are still practiced to
this day in Freemasonry.
-
- These initiations were not limited to Egypt. The
ancient civilizations inherited these Mysteries from a remote
antiquity and they constituted part of a primitive revelation
from the gods to the human race. Almost every people of pre-Christian
times possessed its institution and tradition of the mysteries.
The Romans, the Druids of Britain, the Greeks, the Cretans, the
Syrians, the Hindus, the Persians, the Maya and the American Indians,
among others, had corresponding temples and rites with a system
of graduated illuminations for the initiates.
-
- The modern world knows little of these ancient
rites yet they were conducted in a huge variety of buildings the
world over.
-
- The 'Towers' that are found throughout the East
in Asia were directly connected with the Mystery-initiations.
The candidates for initiation were placed in them for three days
and three nights, whenever there was no temple with a subterranean
crypt close at hand.
-
- In this aspect of the initiatory procedure, Tony
points out a direct Gospel parallel with Rabbi Jesus saying, "After
three days I shall rise again", for he knew the finishing
process he was to undertake would take three days being a symbol
of the period of time required to complete a condition of development.
The ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic texts speak of an initiate as
'twice-born', and he was permitted to add to his name the words
'he who has renewed his life', so that on some ancient tomb-inscriptions
archaeologists still discover these phases descriptive of the
spiritual status of the deceased person.
-
- So little did the later Gospel writers understand
the initiatory process that they never perceived they were developing
a story that included a Rabbi's (and Arch Druid of Britain) experience
in an Egyptian Mystery School.
-
- St Austin (c. 380) asserted that it was generally
known in church circles that Rabbi Jesus had been initiated in
Egypt, and that "he wrote books concerning magic". In
the Gospel of Nicodemus, the Jews brought the same accusation
before Pontius Pilate, "Did we not tell you he was a magician?"
Celsus (c. 178) spoke of the same charge. In the Clementine Recognitions,
the accusation was brought against Rabbi Jesus that he did not
perform any miracles but practiced magic and carried about with
him the figure of a seated skeleton.
-
- Jewish tradition invariably asserted that Rabbi
Jesus learned 'magic' in Egypt. Bushby says the kernel of this
persistent accusation may perhaps be reduced to the simple historical
element that Rabbi Jesus went to Egypt and returned with far wider
and more enlightened views than those of his former religious
associates.
-
- Now, I'm sure that many of you are having trouble
grasping some of the ideas presented in this article and I congratulate
you on taking the effort to read this far. We all need to demand
our local Church, the Church scholars, theologians and media make
an open examination of the evidence compiled in Tony Bushby's
The Bible Fraud. It may rattle some core beliefs but what is more
important to you . the truth or what sits comfortably because
it's what you've known all you life?
-
- I leave you with a quote from one of the conspirators
-
- "How well we know what a profitable superstition
this fable of Christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
-
- Article first published in New Dawn Magazine No
71, March 2002
-
-
- Comment
Alton Raines
6-21-5
-
- While few, even Roman Catholics, would argue that
there have indeed been both Popes of questionable, if not evident
rancor to the faith and to morals in history, likewise few would
argue that there have been upheavals of church politics of every
variety imaginable in 1800+ years, some of which has effected
church function and even doctrine to this day. An imperfect church
hierarchy does not ipso facto mean everything about the Lord Jesus
Christ or the Bible is a lie or fabrication!
-
- The foundation stone of Bushby's erratic, nonsensically
woven tale of two Jesii is conjecture and wild imagination, at
best, having a remarkably embarrassing lack of evidence and/or
reference materials for any given statement or postulation. This
is typical of the current rash of De-Christers who are dead set
on confounding the issues surrounding who Jesus/Y'shua of Nazareth
"really" was and locking that element into centuries
of both real and unsubstantiated accounts of church malfeasance
(some authentic, most invented, almost all irrelevant to the issue
of Biblical veracity). Most such disastrous doctrinal defects
wound up in 'catechisms', not holy scripture (though sadly, some
to this day regard the two as equal)
-
- "How well we know what a profitable superstition
this fable of Christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
is a quote tossed around like a hacky-sack, but it cannot be substantiated
in the least! Most research finds this quote, or a variation of
it, attributed to a Carmelite who converted to protestantism named
John Bale (1495-1563), a playwrite, who swore to inflict as much
damage upon the Roman church as possible, and in so doing, placed
this quote in the mouth of Leo X in his own writings, as represented
in 'The Pageant Of The Popes,' pages 179-180 of Vol. 2 (an 1835
reprint in 2 volumes) which was a satirical piece believed to
be one of many Bale productions to defame Leo X. It was written
even then, regarding this peculiar excerpt, this story "has
been repeated by three or four hundred different writers, without
any authority whatsoever, except that of the author above referred
to."
-
- That quote aside, even if there were a pope that
made such a statement, who was secretly a heretic knowing dark
secrets, it by no means alters the consistent and substantial
course of reasonable historic analysis which has been conducted
through the centuries regarding the life, person, passion and
truth of Jesus Christ, give or take a few Renaissance influences
and peculiar doctrinal stances of various Christians sects down
through the years, the core recognition of the essential story
of Christ is backed by extant manuscripts (more than 12,000!)
which literally stack neck high, whereas for often blindly accepted
sources and resources of detractors and enemies of the veracity
of scripture, there exists either no or little empirical data
by which to authenticate. The means of properly examining both
Biblical and Historic truth has been turned completely upside
down. Say something enough, repeat it on enough websites, and
it becomes part of the fabric of "truth."
-
- One of the key arguments posed by the De-Christers
is that the earliest known writings about the life of Christ appear
far too late to be accepted as valid or accurate. They are, of
course, ignoring a key reality of that time which was the oral
tradition, which then far outweighed writing (Plato called writing
"third hand from the truth").
-
- Few could own or possess a Septuagint (A Greek
translation of the Hebrew scriptures, the "Bible" of
that day) or even a proper Torah (A scroll of parchment containing
the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures, used in a synagogue
during services) in the time of Jesus; this was something only
the wealthy acquired, sometimes owning only one book of the collection
as every copy was painstakingly reproduced by scribes, by hand,
and under the most stringent of conditions and observations, with
endless proofing -- one mar or mistake would bring an entire scroll
into the fire and the scribe would begin again.
-
- But memorization and reciting of the words was
the active means of distribution of the Word of God ((often times
set to memory in song. Few of us can remember the full preamble
to the Constitution of the United States, but almost any of us
can remember verbatim the words to our favorite song), and following
the death and resurrection of Christ, the 'Great Commission' of
the Lord to the Apostles, to "go into all the world, teaching
every creature the gospel (good news), baptizing them.."
came to pass, and historical records of these teachings are replete
throughout Asia Minor, evidenced by the tens of thousands of churches
established upon Jesus Christ as God's only Son and Savior of
mankind -- some still standing to this day or uncovered from the
ruins of time and war, even as far east as India.
-
- They 'preached' the Gospel. But Bushby would have
readers believe that it wasn't until the Counsel of Nicea in 325
AD -- three generations later -- that "Christians" knew
who to worship or had formulated any real doctrine whatsoever!
He depicts it as a mad shambles of wild myths interwoven by a
conspiratorial counsel, when in fact, the counsel was called to
settle reasonable disputes of very deep intellectual, theological
and rational inquiry (such as the nature of Christ, incarnate,
man and God, etc) and to codify a creed and an authorized position.
This was a bad thing? Only to those who have already determined
that Jesus was a fraud and the Apostles were twelve of the most
addle brained lunatics to have ever suffered the tortures of the
damned for a myth!
-
- Bushby would have readers believe the entire ordeal
was a mad dash to 'concoct' a god. And yet, for more than three
hundred years, adherents to the Gospel message as delivered by
the Apostles far and wide, had established churches, with minor
differences in function, ritual and doctrine, and worshiped and
recognized Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of the Living
God and Savior of the world. One need only glance through the
writings of Paul's epistles (letters) to the churches in the New
Testament to see everything was not perfect from church to church;
far from it -- and he personally exhausted himself traveling from
one established church to another, properly aligning them in the
original tenets of the faith.
-
- As he wrote, "And I, brethren, when I came
to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring
unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any
thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was
with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And
my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's
wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That
your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power
of God." (1 Cor. 2:1).
-
- The Bible Fraud is just that. A fraud.
-
-
-
- Comment
Robert Alves
robert_alves@yahoo.com
- 6-21-5
-
- Jeff,
-
- Still love your site man! You definitely post
some interesting articles from interesting sorts.
-
- I read the article on your site "Bible Fraud
- What was the church trying to hide".
-
- Im not a scholar.....I don't have a PHD in astrophysical
whoosiwhatsits. I don't have 20 years to study the original origins
of saltwater taffy.
-
- I am a simple man with simple understandings.
I have read up on some of the early formation of the church and
its doctrines. Since the book ("Bible Fraud")wants to
maintain a pure scientific/historical approach to events, I will
try my best at some form of rebuttal.
-
- Not for the purpose of rousing an argument, but
so that the simple person and those that may be too easily swayed
in their christian faith may know that there actually IS ONE single
HISTORICAL account of Jesus that still exists and that is failed
or at least I failed to see it mentioned.
-
- And before I mention it, I will say....YES, I
know that others will argue and try to disprove and claim the
account forged. I wish I could disprove my taxes and claim them
false but a written record proves them each year.
-
- Back in the 1st century...OOOooh say a good 210-220
years BEFORE the first christian counsel in 325A.D
-
- There was a Jewish scholar by the name of Flavious
Josephus. Jospehus was charged with writing/documenting the history
of the Jews. He was given access to 1st century writings, scrolls
etc (the papers that no longer even exist).
-
- In the year 93A.D, he wrote the extremely lengthy
history. Taken is the following paragraphs from Josephus:
-
- "About this time there lived Jesus, a wise
man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who
performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as
accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the
Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the
principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those
who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them
spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God
had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him.
And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still
to this day not disappeared. " - Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3
§63
-
- So, here we have a 1st century account of a Jewish
historian, who had access to the original writings, scroll, etc.
Confirming what was told to us in the Book of Luke...as his writing
was probably from the original scrolls.
-
- He was more than a man
- He performed miracles
- He was a teacher
- He was the truth
- He was the Messiah
- He was the one foretold of by the prophets thousand
of years earlier.
- He was condemned under Pilate
- He rose on the 3rd day
-
- Again....Josephus wrote about this in 93AD, 200+
years BEFORE the 325AD Counsel. Have I read Mr. Tony Bushby's
"Bible Fraud", nope and I don't plan to, (I haven't
read "War and Peace" either but I hear its pretty good).
-
- In this day and age, it still comes down to one
thing. Faith.....are you strong enough to step out on that limb
and simply believe that Jesus is indeed who He said He was, is...and
is yet to come.
-
- In Christ,
-
- Robert
-
-
- Comment
Tim Rivera
trivera@sympatico.ca
- 6-22-5
-
- re. "Behind The Bible Fraud - ..." by
Robert Adams, posted at http://www.rense.com/general66/hide.htm
-
- Please forgive the length of what follows, but
typically it is a much more difficult (and involved) matter to
give rebuttal than it is to make assertions.
-
- Rather than reading the pseudo-scholarly works
that are all the rage on this topic (and those related to it -
ala "The Da Vinci Code"), the author of this piece would
have been better served to have actually read CREDIBLE sources
on this topic; namely, reading the polemics/apologies which surrounded
the matter discussed at the Council of Nicea (which sadly, is
a favourite point of attack for enthusiastic, but terribly ill-informed
new-agers and so called "free thinkers"). You'll have
to forgive me if this sounds presumptuous, but I can hardly believe
someone who is actually familiar with the history of this period
(whether a Christian or not; religious or secular in outlook)
and has read primary sources on the context in which the Council
of Nicea occured, could have written such an incredibly unfortunate
article.
-
- Nicea was ultimatly decisive between two points
of view, though both were underpinned by similar assumptions;
those who confessed that Christ (according to His Divinity) was
"homoousion" ("same essence" - orthodox view,
and despite what some falsely claim, majorative before Arius's
rise in popularity) and the novel, but rationalistically appealing
teaching of the Alexandrian Priest Arius, that Christ was "unlike"
God, though in some wise pre-existed His appearance on earth (being
a demiurge, created by God the Father - a sort of arch-angel to
put it plainly.) There would also arise those who for various
reasons took a position that has come to be known as "semi-arianism"
- the description of Jesus Christ as being "of like"
or "similar" essence to God the Father. This was a comprimise
position, in that it was sufficiently vague for people to continue
using the same basic language while intending different things;
thus some of these "semi-arians" were in fact orthodox
in their beliefs about Christ, but for comprimise' sake or due
to some distaste for the choice of wording used by their more
uncomprimising brethren, avoided the language of "one essence"
which at the time could also itself sound like a throw back to
the heresy of "sabellianism" (which taught that the
three Persons of the Trinity were simply "modes" or
"masks" portrayed by a singular, unitarian God) which
Arians and Orthodox alike regarded as a blasphemy.
-
- I'm going through the trouble of explaining the
positions of the "parties" involved in this controversy
(which the Council of Nicea sought to sort out, to restore peace
to the Church and the Empire) to illustrate the following point
- that as much as the above was a cause of furious argument and
division, practically everything apart from this was not all that
"controversial" at that time. The Orthodox and Arian
Christians had the same basic libraries of sacred books (particularly
when it came to older materials), and both argued out of the same
body of Biblical texts - no one pulled out "secret Gospels"
or "secret Epistles" of which the other party was unaware.
Indeed, had one entered either an Orthodox or Arian house of worship,
it's highly unlikely that they would perceive an immediate difference
between the two. Thus the idea that the big bad "Council
of Nicea" was assembled to determine what Christianity in
it's most basic sense amounts to, is ridiculous. Indeed, for many
moderns (for whom "ideas" are not something important
enough to get worked up over) much of the debate before, during,
and after the Council of Nicea can seem tedious and like hair
splitting - which round aboutly, demonstrates that what Christianity
in it's basics "was", including it's sacred books (since
this was what the "Bible" is - a library, not a single
book), was not so controversial by the time 325 A.D. rolled around.
-
- The author also makes another fatal error - the
confounding of the Roman Catholic Church with the "Church
of Nicea", and anachronistically reading the absurdities
and excesses of later "Papism" upon this "Nicean
Church". The fact of the matter is, those assembled at Nicea
would not have recognized what the local Roman Church became in
later centuries - indeed, the Bishops of Rome contemporary to
that period would not recognize the "Church of the Crusades"
or the pretended "infalliblity" of the 19th century
Popes as her own. If you want to see descendents of "Nicene"
Christianity, you'd be better off going to Greece, Russia, or
Egypt, than looking to later Rome, which by their lights, represents
a false, schismatic church, not the "Catholic Church"
proper. IOW, for all of the pretense of open mindedness, the author
has taken an extremely narrow view of the topic - and in fact,
is guilty of buying into the anachronistic propaganda of the Vatican
itself (which tries to present itself as the "ancient church",
when in reality it's a schism from the Orthodox Church of the
East, which to this day has a nominal membership in the hundreds
of millions, though is largely unknown to westerners.)
-
- T. Rivera
-
-
- Comment
Marcea Ray
6-22-5
-
- I was surprised to see Robert Adam's article describing,
and in support of, the Bible Fraud. I haven't researched the sources
of the assertions that the author of the Bible Fraud uses as "proof"
for his claims, so I hesitate to offer up an opinion, but from
Adam's article, and the responses of Jack
Manuelian and Alton Raines, it seems as if the Bible Fraud
is yet another outrageous attempt to discredit the Bible and Christianity,
but this isn't anything new or unusual, it's been going on for
two thousand years now.
-
- I disagree with Alton Raines that Jews don't ever
hate Christianity. Some of them do; I personally know two Jews
who have an intense hatred of Christianity, but as a Christian,
I don't hate them in return.
-
- Jews make up 2 or 3 percent of our population,
yet they wield a powerful influence in this country. The top four
Hollywood film studios are owned by Jews. There is rarely a film
that comes out of Hollywood today (or for a long time now)that
ever mentions God, religion, Jesus, or even Moses. I believe that
the Jews are intentionally keeping all relgious references out
of films.
-
- But in all fairness, it's not only some Jews who
are against Christianity. Occultists, Freemasons, New Agers -
many of them are also against Christianity. No doubt the Bible
Fraud will attract a legion of followers, but people have always
been deluded by belief systems that go against God and religion.
-
- The trick is to always check the sources of any
writer's claims, but most people don't take the time to do this.
They'll believe anything if it sounds credible, or fits within
their own framework of beliefs.
-
- Marcea Ray
-
-
-
- Comment
Mohamed Imtiaz
6-22-5
Dear Rense,
-
- I am a Muslim and was very interested in reading
the article "Behind The Bible Fraud - What Was The Church
Trying To Hide? By Robert Adams New Dawn Magazine.com
-
- However, after reaching where he talked about
Jesus (peace be with him), I realized that Mr. Robert Adams is
trying to deceive your audiences. Our source of guidance is the
Quraan. We believed what has been revealed to Jesus (peace be
with him) is from Allah. We also have evidences proving the Bible
of today is not in its original form and has been altered. What
the Muslims cannot tolerate is the blasphemy Mr. Adams is leveling
against Allah's Messenger.(paragraph 20-21)
-
- The Holy Quraan says:
- 1. Jesus (peace be with him) was born from virgin
Mary (peace be with her).
- 2. Jesus (peace be with him) was never married.
- 3. Jesus (peace be with him) was never a thief.
- 4. Jesus (peace be with him) was never murdered
nor crucified. He is alive and will
- be sent back to earth near the end of this world.
There is an empty spot alongside
- the grave of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
That's where Jesus (peace be with
- him) will be buried.
-
- Mr Rense, I would humbly request you to remove
all article by Robert Adams from your website so that only truth
may be said about Allah's Holy Messenger.
-
- Yours Truly,
- Mohamed Imtiaz
- Georgia,USA.
-
-
- Absolutely not, Mohamed! You may believe in
censorship of the ideals, beliefs and faith of others, but we
do not. You need to recognize that centuries of censorship and
bloodshed to silence others has resulted in nothing but misery
and the rule of mad dictators, very often in the name of God.
You need to learn to patiently abide with longsuffering the opinions
and views of others IN PEACE. Your views, as well as those of
Mr. Adams, are welcome and valid and worthy of attention. This
is not an Islamic website, anymore than it is a Christian website.
ALL viewpoints are welcome. This is how people are properly educated.
Now -- peace be with you! - ed
-
-
- Comment
Vencislav Bujic
- 6-22-5
-
- My comment to Robert Alves:
-
- The so-called "Josephus paragraph" is
a forgery, there is excelent web page about paragraph and about
other "non-Christian" testimony of Jesus:
-
- http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html
-
- Josephus (c37-100 AD)
-
- Flavius Josephus is a highly respected and much-quoted
Romano-Jewish historian. The early Christians were zealous readers
of his work.
-
- A native of Judea, living in the 1st century AD,
Josephus was actually governor of Galilee for a time (prior to
the war of 70 AD) the very province in which Jesus allegedly
did his wonders. Though not born until 37 AD and therefore not
a contemporary witness to any Jesus-character, Josephus at one
point even lived in Cana, the very city in which Christ is said
to have wrought his first miracle.
-
- Josephus's two major tomes are History of The
Jewish War and The Antiquities of the Jews. In these complementary
works, the former written in the 70s, the latter in the 90s AD,
Josephus mentions every noted personage of Palestine and describes
every important event which occurred there during the first seventy
years of the Christian era.
-
- At face value, Josephus appears to be the answer
to the Christian apologist's dreams.
-
- In a single paragraph (the so-called Testimonium
Flavianum ) Josephus confirms every salient aspect of the Christ-myth:
-
- 1. Jesus's existence 2. his 'more than human'
status 3. his miracle working 4. his teaching 5. his ministry
among the Jews and the Gentiles 6. his Messiahship 7. his condemnation
by the Jewish priests 8. his sentence by Pilate 9. his death on
the cross 10. the devotion of his followers 11. his resurrection
on the 3rd day 12. his post-death appearance 13. his fulfillment
of divine prophesy 14. the successful continuance of the Christians.
-
- In just 127 words Josephus confirms everything
now that is a miracle!
-
- BUT WAIT A MINUTE ... Not a single writer before
the 4th century not Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria,
Tertullian, Cyprian, Arnobius, etc. in all their defences
against pagan hostility, makes a single reference to Josephus'
wondrous words.
-
- The third century Church 'Father' Origen, for
example, spent half his life and a quarter of a million words
contending against the pagan writer Celsus. Origen drew on all
sorts of proofs and witnesses to his arguments in his fierce defence
of Christianity. He quotes from Josephus extensively. Yet even
he makes no reference to this 'golden paragraph' from Josephus,
which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. In fact, Origen actually
said that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ."
-
- Origen did not quote the 'golden paragraph' because
this paragraph had not yet been written.
-
- It was absent from early copies of the works of
Josephus and did not appear in Origen's third century version
of Josephus, referenced in his Contra Celsum.
-
- Consider, also, the anomalies:
-
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